


14.02: Electro Boobs

by nochickflickpodcast



Series: NCFM Season 14 [2]
Category: Supernatural
Genre: (No) Chick Flick Moments, Character Analysis, Comedy, Discussion, Episode: s14e02 Gods and Monsters, Fancast, Gen, Humor, Meta, Podcast, Screenplay/Script Format, transcript
Language: English
Status: Completed
Published: 2019-06-03
Updated: 2019-06-03
Packaged: 2020-04-06 22:16:57
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Chapters: 1
Words: 13,380
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/19071781
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/nochickflickpodcast/pseuds/nochickflickpodcast
Summary: Join us in covering S14E2, "Gods and Monsters", or the one where Jack gets a family reunion, Mary gets her hatchet on, and Castiel is the worst babysitter ever.





	14.02: Electro Boobs

**Author's Note:**

> Complete transcript of (No) Chick Flick Moment's 14.02: Electro Boobs
> 
> Listen in full [here](https://www.nochickflickpodcast.com/episodes/episode/7532e13d/1402-electro-boobs), or wherever you get your podcasts!
> 
> Website ([x](https://www.nochickflickpodcast.com/)) Twitter ([x](https://twitter.com/nochickflickpod)) Tumblr ([x](https://nochickflickpodcast.tumblr.com/)) 
> 
> Come join us!

Remmy: Hello hello hello everybody! This is (No) Chick Flick Moments, a Supernatural watch cast, and I am your co-host Remmy.

Bea: Hi! I am your other co-host, Bea.

Remmy: And today we are talking about Season 14, Episode 2: Gods and Monsters.

Bea: Yay!

Remmy: Yayyyy! This episode was written by Brad Buckner & Eugenie Ross-Leming, and directed by Richard Speight Jr.

Bea: Good old Gabriel.

Remmy: [laughs] Good ol’ Gabriel. I did not know going into this that this episode was directed by — by Rich.

Bea: I completely forgot.

Remmy: I am not — I will be the first to admit that I do not typically pay much overmuch attention to the writers and directors, with a few exceptions.

Bea: Yeah, there's some situations where I'll finish the episode and then I'll go, “Oh, okay, that was really good! Now who did that.”

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: And sort of acquired a taste for the writing teams from there.

Remmy: Mhmm. We're learning more about the writers as we actually pay attention to the episodes little bit more with these watches.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: For sure. So. The description for this episode is: _Sam finds a clue to Dean's whereabouts, so he, Mary and Bobby set out to investigate. Castiel imparts some sage advice on Jack, who, still desperate to belong, seeks out a familial connection._

Bea: Ahhh. [sighs]

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Quite a bit was going on in this one!

Remmy: Tell me — tell me what's up.

Bea: Okay, so we start off in this derelict church, where there's a bunch of people tied up and there is a dude, bleeding out —

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: — on the pulpit into this chalice. And Michael shows up in a suit, but with an apron on. He adds some Grace to the blood in the chalice, feeds it back to the dude, and the dude straight-up electro-boops dies.

Remmy: With a — [laughs] Wait. What was that, that you just said? Electro what now?

Bea: Electro-boops.

[pause]

Remmy: I'm sorry, what?

Bea: Electro-boops!

Remmy: You… [laughs] You can repeat it —

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: You can repeat it all you want, I just — What??

Bea: What would I… The definition I guess would be… It comes from playing Super Smash Brothers and —

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: — having Pikachu as a main as a 15 year old and, like —

Remmy: [laughs louder]

Bea: When Pikachu would use his powers we would just call it, like, electro-boops.

Remmy: [continues laughing]

Bea: So like, not enough to kill you, so I guess it's not technically a descriptive that should be used at this point but, it's an electro-boop! He — he lights up from the inside like a Christmas tree.

Remmy: See, I was about to apologize for giggling when you said “a guy tied up on the altar” and I… But no, that was way worse. Electro boop.

Bea: I'm sorry. I —

Remmy: Alright. [laughs]

Bea: I — I call it like I see it.

Remmy: To be fair, I did hear “boob” like four times.

Bea: I was like, how do I — Do the, like —

Remmy: So.

Bea: — the “p” popping sound without offending my microphone? [laughs]

Remmy: [pops a “p”]

Bea: Electro — Oh my God, my notes even say electro-boobs.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Damn it.

Remmy: Um. Moving on, moving on.

Bea: Mhmm.

Remmy: [laughs] Uh, we...

Bea: Yeah, so Michael kills the guy, and he just calls it disappointing, and immediately drags him off into the heap of other dead.

Remmy: So, starting out strong.

Bea: The knife flick! The way that he pulls it out from his apron and just —

Remmy: Ohh, yes!

Bea: [fwishing noise]

Remmy: Yesss, that was pretty smooth. That was pretty good

Bea: Mhmm. That was a pretty nice introduction, because what we saw of him last episode was more, ‘on the hunt’, and now we're seeing Michael almost playful.

Remmy: Mhmm, and I — Well, we'll talk about it later, but I like the flippancy of the scene.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: From Michael's perspective.

Bea: Yeah, ‘cause the last episode — The way that he ended, speaking to the vampire. Again, I got the impression that he was just looking for something to be obedient. Something to be a pet. And so when he had this guy tied up at the pulpit and was like, massaging his neck and going “good boy,” it just further reinforced that feeling of, like, he wants some subservient people around him. He wants something that he is in command of, and he doesn't have particular degree of respect for those that he wants to command

Remmy: For sure. And then we have Bobby and Mary, we cut to the bunker.

Bea: Yep! We’re in the library, and Bobby is complaining that Michael has chosen Duluth of all places, in October.

Remmy: And I — I don't actually even know where Duluth is. Is it Ohio?

Bea: ...You're asking _me_ about America?

Remmy: Oh, yeah. [laughs]

Bea: [laughs] I'm — I'm like, Midwest is my guess. Final answer.

Remmy: Okay. Okay, well, we'll just let that one slide. Yeah, I definitely failed my 8th grade blank map Geography test so, oh well.

Bea: I'm going to Google, because I won't be able to rest.

Remmy: I think it's Minnesota...

Bea: It's Minnesota!

Remmy: It's Minnesoooota! I guessed right!

Bea: Yayy. [claps]

Remmy: Actually, I said Ohio first, so I don't get a pass on that one.

Bea: I guessed like, the Midwest as its own f****** State, okay, like — You did better by far.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Yeah, then, Bobby throws out this insult about angels, and Cas is standing right there like, “No I — No offense [taken], I tend to side with you anyways.”

Remmy: Uh huh, that was fun. That was good. That was a good little Cas stinger.

Bea: Mhmm. And Sam, of course, breaks out his trusty laptop, and he has news about bodies being found by train tracks in Duluth. And they figure out that this is a sign that is relating to Michael, and they're going to go check it out. But first, they explain why Cas isn't going to be tagging along.

Remmy: Well, they very _awkwardly_ explain why Cas is not going to be tagging along. Sam with his little patronizing, “Sooo, do you remember why you can't come?”

Bea: Yeah. It’s the adult with both hands on the knees, talking to the five-year-old like, “Okay, sweetie, now do you understand?”

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: But then Cas is going “Yes, you need me to babysit.” Like, he's immediately condescending back.

Remmy: Yeah, yeah, he's like, “And I can't enter Michael’s vicinity without him sensing me.” Like, okay, a little bit too much exposition in the writing, you don't have to tell us all that.

Bea: It was a little heavy-handed. But I did like the excuse for Cas to kind of snap back saying, “It's not babysitting _only_ in the sense that they are not babies.”

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Otherwise that's exactly what [Cas] is doing here.

Remmy: Uh huh, uh huh. Salty Cas, a little bit there.

Bea: So Cas says like, Jack is still feeling lost, and Nick is just a _mess_ , but Sam wants him to have... Okay, we get the first insight in this episode, right, as to really why Sam wants to keep Nick around. Or not — why he _wants_ to, but why he feels he should, right? Because he says he wants Nick to have a shot at rebuilding his life. And you can see Cas’s reaction was kind of like, “Okay…?” He wasn't quite understanding Sam's motives, even with that explanation.

Remmy: Yeah, and this is the first time that we're hearing that. That sympathy for Nick. I mean, the last episode was — and we're only two episodes in, but the last episode, I think Sam definitely gave the impression that, if anything, Nick was a possible source of information, right?

Bea: Yeah, that there was some… I don't know if I would say guilt, but there was some feeling there that there was an onus to make sure that he at least got his footing back. Because he was suffering from nightmares and just having a terrible go of it, and three weeks on, now, they’re hoping that he's gained some ground.

Remmy: Now, yeah.

Bea: But, back at the library, Jack enters, and he's like, “Yeah, I have trouble looking at Nick, too!”

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: He's basically like, “You guys are talking about my a****** dad??” and they're like, oh s*** we got caught.

Remmy: Uh huh.

Bea: Just similar to Bobby and Cas, and [Jack]'s like, “No it's okay, it bothers me to.”

Remmy: It — I don't know, it's very obvious that everyone is tiptoeing, because everyone has… As of yet, only Sam seems to be the one who wants to make the effort to separate Nick from Lucifer.

Bea: And even that effort comes at a great cost for him.

Remmy: Yes. And even he is having a very difficult time of it.

Bea: Something else that I noticed from this scene was Jack making a point to say, “Yeah, I sucked when it mattered on the last hunt, but I'm gonna stay here and improve.” And I just thought that phrasing was like, oh, he's kind of becoming a teenager already…

Remmy: [laughs] Did you read that more as him just being down on himself, or —

Bea: Like, in a very flippant way of berating himself. Something that, I don’t know, that I would put on internet culture. “Yeah, I hate everything and I want to die inside —” and it was just said in such a casual fashion that —

Remmy: Yeah, that good ol’ Gen Z nihilism.

Bea: Yes! And Mary, I like that she made a point to tell Jack, “You're sitting this one out, but it's not permanent. We just need to take care of this in the most efficient way possible.” And it's just that she was being straightforward to the point, but also not being casually mean about it. She was making a point that he would find some comfort in, too.

Remmy: It wasn't a complete shutdown, but she was also being realistic.

Bea: Yeah, you're not being benched for good.

Remmy: Mhmm. Now, I need you to walk me through this next scene. This Nick, who's having Lucifer visions, and Cas comes in. Because I put a string of question marks next to this scene, and —

Bea: Yeah, eh?

Remmy: And I need to know why. I don't remember.

Bea: It really raises questions for me about how much [Nick] really remembers. Like, how much came back to him in the aftermath of Lucifer's death, and Nick’s apparent… I don't know, his revelation of self. Because we see him having these memory flashbacks of killings that [Lucifer] performed. [We see] the angels over in the apocalypse world; we see back to the Elysian hotel, in Season 5 where he kills Gabriel. And Nick is just really bogged down with these memories. And Cas walks in — He has his eyes downcast, he's not looking at Nick as he moves to bring the food in and unloads the table. And Nick makes a point of being… well, he doesn't let Cas away with it easy. He points out, “You're not looking at me, but you know I'm not him,” and [Nick]'s trying to understand why he said yes to Lucifer.

Remmy: Yeah. So he says, “I just don't understand why I would have done that. I don't understand _how_ I could have done that. I don't understand what pain would have brought me to this.” Because I think it was Cas that said, “You were in pain.”

Bea: Yes. You were in a lot of pain, and basically Lucifer exploited your vulnerability.

Remmy: Yes, and Nick says, “What possible pain could have led to this?” And then Cas is the one who...informs? I don't know if that's the right word, but informs Nick about his family.

Bea: Yeah, he breaks the news about Sarah and Teddy. And he doesn't even explicitly state that they're dead, he just said, “Well, your family was why,” and then Nick goes through his Slumdog Millionaire flashback sequence of the lead up to him saying yes to Lucifer. He gets really emotional, and he just asks, “Who could do that? Who could kill my family? It's not a man, a monster. And now I'm a monster, too.”

Remmy: I guess my only thought here was like, we can assume Nick's been awake for at least... a while, right?

Bea: They said the first episode, it's been three weeks since Dean disappeared.

Remmy: Yeah. Let's be generous and say that Nick had been in and out of some deliria for two and a half weeks, because it did seem pretty new, right? Last episode, this whole Nick thing.

Bea: Yes, [new] that he is having enough coherency outside of nightmares to hold a conversation.

Remmy: Mhmm. But even then, this is — It seems like a question that he would have asked before this moment.

Bea: Yeah, it raises the question of how much he remembers of his life before. Because if you can forget something as big as, ‘you’re married and you had a kid,’ then what about his life does he remember at all?

Remmy: I didn't have the thought before this moment, but I'm just going to write it off as Nick's not really himself right now. And he's just been struggling so much with his PTSD that he hasn't really even come to yet, in any real way. And let's say that _this_ moment, this revelation about his family, is the moment where he comes back to himself.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: And [Nick] kind of launches into action, and he finally leaves that bedroom.

Bea: Yeah, I think you're right. Because it's really with the memory of Sarah and Teddy surfacing that he comes to action. He has a plan. He wants to find things out about what happened, what's preceded since then. So he stops dwelling on the parts of him that are so traumatized by Lucifer, and instead now has this life vest he can put on and pursue. But, the next scene, we have Sam, Bobby, and Mary going to the.... I don't know what to call this. I'm like, it's not the coroner's office, it's like…

Remmy: It's just the morgue.

Bea: The morgue! That's the word. And, you know what, this should have answered the question of where Duluth is, because [the coroner] had an accent that reminded me of Fargo and it's just like. Oh, okay, Minnesota makes sense now.

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah I — not gonna lie, her first sentence I was like, “Oh, an Irish lady, that's cool.”

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: But as she continued talking I was like, oh no that's definitely —

Bea: [imitating Minnesotan accent] “Yeah, oh no, you betcha.”

Remmy: [laughs] Uh huh, uh huh. Very Donna.

Bea: Mhmm. She points out that the cause of death for the _multitude_ of victims that they've taken in is unknown, but there are scars on the neck and there's internal injuries. And she leaves for a phone call, and [Sam, Mary, and Bobby] start examining the bodies. And…the… I’m like, ‘the morgue lady’, but there's got to be a better —

Remmy: The... coroner?

Bea: Maybe...?

Remmy: They, uh, they have a name… Hey, listeners! Lovely lovely listeners, um, what's the name of the people who take care of the people in the morgue...? Thank youuu.

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: So they figure out they're looking at vampire corpses, and everyone is just instantly very confused. Why would Michael be messing with vampires? It's just completely not what anyone was expecting. And Sam actually goes to the coroner and asks, “Hey, so…” he sidles up [to her] all pretty, and he says, “Hey, so. Has anyone come in to identify the bodies yet? and [the coroner] says [imitating Minnesotan accent] “Oh, yeah —”

Bea: [imitating Minnesotan accent] “Oh yeah, you betcha.”

Remmy: [Minnesotan accent sliding sharply to Irish] “Well there was, there was one little lady.”

[pause]

Remmy: I — That was totally —

Bea: You IMMEDIATELY went Irish!

Remmy: [laughs] I… and I knew it as it happened. Anyways! “Yeah, one woman came, who thought she knew one of the victims. But no, she just left. Never even got her name.”

Bea: And it's from that, we find out later, that they look at the security footage around and they find her license plate and they go track her down.

Remmy: Mhmm.

Bea: But before that, we cut to Jack, and he's in the library reading some biblical lore. And Cas teases him, calling it, “Oh, so, light reading?” And Jack is looking into how much longer he has to wait until his powers return, essentially.

Remmy: And he says that there's so little — Did he say there was so little on the subject that it could be anything?

Bea: It's “woefully scant.”

Remmy: Yesss. Yes, yes.

Bea: But the idea was between a month and a century.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: But there is the complicating factor of Jack being a Nephilim.

Remmy: His human component. Cas calls it the “human component,” which would slow down the process. And I'm like, when your range is a month to a century, what does ‘slow down’ even mean?

Bea: Yeah! Yeah, okay, we're gonna look at two centuries now.

Remmy: Right, right.

Bea: And they bond over mourning each of their losses. And essentially Jack is pulling this very selfish view, like, “You couldn't understand.” But Cas is reaching across to say, “No, I _have_ been in a place where I had what I felt was nothing. I lost my grace, I lost my wings; I felt hopeless and useless. And no, I wasn't at my bottom, because I had Sam and Dean; but more importantly, I had myself.” And, I love how he puts it. Like, the basic me, without the bells and whistles.

Remmy: Let me say now, that I really really really _really_ loved Cas through this whole episode.

Bea: _Yes._

Remmy: Honestly, every scene from beginning to end. Misha killed it, he did such a good job. I loved Cas this whole episode. Every line was… [imitates kiss] perfection.

Bea: Yeah, we really got the opportunity to get insight to how much he has grown since coming back from the Empty. Because last season there was so much turmoil, and sort of… There were time limits on everything that they were trying to do, there wasn't the opportunity to stop and breathe. And then having this happen so early in Season 14 was really refreshing, and just a shot of warmth towards Castiel's character.

Remmy: 100% agree. Super refreshing. We had — [laughs] Again, we had Jack, petulant teenager, “What do you know about it?” But Cas _did_. Like you said, he made the effort to relate his own experiences to Jack, and really showed us, the viewer, a piece of himself that we haven't really shone light on yet. _And_ gave Jack something to think about.

Bea: And it gives this really paternal side to Cas. Because we knew that he had made to this deal to Kelly, that he would protect Jack, but it was perhaps hard to imagine how that would play out. But [Cas] is really throwing himself into sort of healing his own wounds, and making sure that, whatever his limitations may have been, he’s trying to overcome them for the sake of Jack, and making sure that Jack is… That Jack has his best footing available for moving forward.

Remmy: Yes, it was very good. I approve. Which, I mean, um. Salt round, pause —

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: Um…

Bea: Fire it off.

Remmy: To be honest, I would not have expected such a thing from… Some writers who shall not be named. But… [laughs] It was good! This episode was pretty much a hit for me.

Bea: Mhmm. Honestly, I quite enjoyed it.

Remmy: End salt round. I — I like that, “fire it off.”

Bea: [laughs] Fire it off!

Remmy: Yeah, it's good.

Bea: But yeah, Cas has to go through this healing process of, you know, he's had periods in his past where he's doubted his self worth and had... I guess a very negative perspective towards his usefulness. And so even though Jack might think “No, you’re not in the same position as me,” no, Cas is probably the one who can most relate to where [Jack] is right now. And he is using this chance to emphasize that you can… You won't be at the same skill level as your surrounding people, because they've had decades to practice, and part of the skills that you can gain are patience and persistence. And, you know, it's important to know where you came from, but your future is ultimately more important. So… we are meant to interpret this as Jack hearing this as… “Oh, I want to go dig into my past.”

Remmy: We… yeah.

Bea: I'm like, my salt round would be, no one actually hears what Cas is saying to them. Because Jack goes, [mocking] “Oh, okay, I'm gonna go visit my grandparents.”

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: And Nick goes, “Oh, so, what you mean is, you’re a body snatcher,” and I'm just like. Okay, you guys, just stop being overdramatic.

Remmy: Yeah! What is it, uh, what was it… Oh, nevermind, this comes later. Ignore me.

Bea: Yeah, no worries.

Remmy: We cut to Michael getting pretty.

Bea: Yeah, he's in a tux, in a bow tie; there is the mirror and Dean yelling to get out.

Remmy: Yeah... And this is the first time we've seen Dean, in too long! It's only been one episode, but it's been too long!

Bea: Mhmm! You could really feel that he is stifled in his current situation, and the amount of effort that he portrayed in that mirror scene. And Michael shut him down immediately like, “Listen,” [he] punches the glass and, “ I own you. So, hang on and enjoy the ride.”

Remmy: Now, I'm like, Shirley Temple, got my chin in my hands, um…

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: So, did you read that punch to the mirror as… I don't know! Was it Michael? Was it Dean? Was it both? Was it a release of Dean’s own aggression? Was it something that Michael did to try to shock Dean out of his fight? ‘Cause I would love to read that action, that — Because it is, like, from what we've seen from Michael so far, he's so contained, and controlled, and smug, but that one… _jerk_. It was — It was kind of jarring.

Bea: And you know what I think, that that's what it was meant to be. We see that it took so much effort for Dean to come out and speak, and then here is Michael with this really quick, sharp action that completely shuts [Dean] down. And I think that the violent imagery of it is intended, because it’s such a clean cut: from Dean rising to the surface and being able to speak, [to] Dean is gone and the mirror is all fractured, but all facets contain Michael.

Remmy: And it was — More on what Michael’s feeling in this moment, can we read this as him frustrated? In a way that we haven't seen him before, with Dean's constant struggles.

Bea: Do we see [Michael] as frustrated, and maybe this isn't the first time that he's experienced it. Because he didn't seem surprised; he didn't seem concerned. He just seemed like, “I have to shut you down again.”

Remmy: Yeah, yeah. And so, going further into _this_ episode, not getting into future episodes, but going further in this episode. Multiple times in the next 30 minutes I ask the question: what does Michael… what are Michael's motivations, here? And maybe we can look back on this moment as more telling than Michael might have intended.

Bea: Yeah, let's look through the scenes that are upcoming in this episode, and then see what we can tie back to this moment.

Remmy: Mhmm.

Bea: So, we cut to Cas and Sam, and Cas can't make sense of what's happening there, either. He doesn't see how vampires would ever cross paths with an archangel, because they're so insignificant in comparison.

Remmy: Yeah, he says it makes no sense that Michael would bother. And I think that this even harkens way back to what we know about archangels. That archangels are absolute, and they — Even just angels, would never lower themselves to such petty concerns. Hunting and killing vampires? It just makes no sense.

Bea: Yeah, to the angels: messing with vampires, it's kind of like… I'm trying to make a comparison, but… I dunno, it's like using a bulldozer to go kill some ants.

Remmy: [laughs] A bulldozer for an ant hill, yeah.

Bea: Yeah. [Next scene] Nick enters the library, and he is just irate that there is no news on his family, this cold case. And he regrets that he wasn't there to fight, to make sure that people were keeping up on it.

Remmy: Mhmm.

Bea: Cas tries to comfort him, and Nick immediately... snaps a finger at him on instinct.

Remmy: Ouff!

Bea: And Cas looks super wigged-out

Remmy: Ouff! Ohhh yes. Yes yes yes yes. I loved it. I think this scene was probably my favorite scene in the entire episode.

Bea: Yesss, I really liked it too.

Remmy: I think both Mark P. and Misha did an amazing job. It was so good. It was well-directed, it was… Nick, or Mark P., really does draw us into his… fluster, or… I don’t know what to call it, it’s…

Bea: When you're watching Nick, you can see the tidal waves that are crashing onto him, and you can feel yourself getting knocked over by them too.

Remmy: Yeah, and, Cas really does just want to offer comfort. Y’know, we even see Cas kind of seeing past his “all I see is Lucifer,” and responding to this very human Nick.

Bea: Yeah, ‘cause no matter who, Cas tends to be someone who is very sympathetic, if not empathetic. And so to have someone in [his] sphere who is going through pain, he’s going to be attentive to that.

Remmy: And Cas reaches out a hand in comfort, and he's instantly bitten.

Bea: Yes, and he flinches back so hard.

Remmy: It was so good! It was so good.

Bea: Yeah, ‘cause they're both haunted by the spectre of Lucifer, and I don't know about you, but — What was your initial impression on seeing that scene? Like, what did that imply to you about the nature of Lucifer and his relationship with Nick?

Remmy: Honestly? I almost had the… Six months removed from watching this episode for the first time, I pretty much had the same exact reaction that I had the first time, which was just like, instant white noise. My mind just fuzzed-out in that moment. I was just like, [gasp]! And it was just total freeze frame, for me.

Bea: It really catches you by surprise, yeah.

Remmy: And then Cas really asks the important question, which was, “What what were you even thinking in that moment?”

Bea: Mhmm.

Remmy: “What was your _intent_ , there?” Because… was it instinct? Or —

Bea: Yeah, was it a reflex that [Nick] learned through all that time of being possessed?

Remmy: Or, “Did you... just…. intend to kill me?”

Bea: Yeah

Remmy: And that was something that kind of went unsaid, in a great way.

Bea: Yesss.

Remmy: It was so good.

Bea: Oh, I didn't even think on that. I was so caught on the way that his whole mannerism changed after he did the finger snap. Like, Nick came in and he was overwrought, and he was being dramatic, and then in this moment it just completely washes out. It's gone, it was never there.

Remmy: It’s Lucifer.

Bea: Yeah. And it made me wonder: how much of this is just him having, like, Overdramatic B**** Disease right now?

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Because everything that he was doing was just to this heightened emotional level, and there wasn't — I don't know, I guess I would be very critical on the way he was responding, and I can't really say for sure how you would react, but there was a degree of... the tears and everything fell away, and he was immediately shut down, and had to almost reboot, like, “Oh. Oh right. I was sad.”

Remmy: Yeah, I think that it was just kind of like, in the moment he completely transformed. He fell into this Lucifer instinct. This Lucifer persona. And again, not getting into what's going to go down later in the season, but let's maybe keep in mind that when he does take on that Lucifer mindset, he can — He kind of loses that lack of focus.

Bea: Yeah. When he takes on the Lucifer mindset he has removed himself from the pain and the turmoil that he's feeling, and it just becomes this really clean, action-oriented roll. Because he — I mean, he did the finger snap here; Cas checked on him and said, you know, there might be more damage to Nick’s psyche then they realized. Thanks to Lucifer. And Nick just bails to find who killed his family, and he doesn't answer when Cas asks, “And then what?”

Remmy: He also doesn't answer when Cas asked him, “What were you thinking in that moment?”

Bea: Mhmm.

Remmy: And [Nick] said, “I don't know.” But he didn't not know, it was just a deflection. That's how I read it.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: It was a really great moment, narratively.

Bea: Yeah. It left you with a lot of questions.

Remmy: I know! It was good. And we cut — [laughs] Well, okay, this scene left us with a lot of questions, and the next scene, my only note on it is, ‘there's a lot of assumptions going on here.’

Bea: Mhmm. I like how Sam was like, “Hey, FBI!” and then immediately kicks down the door.

Remmy: Well, we — The next scene is where we cut to the woman, the vampire that we saw tied up —

Bea: Lydia.

Remmy: We don't know her name yet, but I'll give it to you: her name’s Lydia.

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: So we see Lydia, who is the vampire that we saw in the first scene, and she's at her apartment and there's a knock on the door. And Sam says, [gruff] “FBI open up!” and....

Bea: Spaghetti kicks.

Remmy: Spaghetti kicks the door down. And then… was everyone out of their FBI suits, or was it just Bobby?

Bea: Yeah, they were dressed as hunters.

Remmy: Uh huh.

Bea: Ready to go. And she calls them as much when she sees them.

Remmy: Well, when — Again, Bobby launches into a bit too much exposition on the ‘how we tracked you down.’ Like, “Oh, we hacked into the cameras outside the morgue, and then we got your license, and we —”

Bea: Tracked the plates!

Remmy: “— tracked your plates, and you know, you really should have ditched the car [after] you turned.” And I'm like, again, we're making a lot of assumptions about one woman who came to the morgue to try to identify the bodies.

Bea: Well, it's like there’s a lot that the narrative is trying to get across, and this really condensed period. And, yeah, I guess the idea is: if she's come to check out the bodies, and all the bodies are vampires, then, I don't know, she's not like, the one plucky human in this whole crowd.

Remmy: It's just kind of like, I think they drew attention to the fact that they were working off a very flimsy assumption about this woman who came to check on the bodies in the morgue. Like, if Sam had just kicked down the door, pulled a gun and said, “Don't,” as she was trying to get out the window then… we didn't need all of the “We know you're a vampire… cool cool, cool cool cool.”

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: [sighs] I don't know, I'm just pickin’. I'm just picking at scabs.

Bea: Yeah, I think on first watch I was a little bit perplexed at how quickly they were going to kill her. I mean, she spilled her guts right away. She said that her nest was like, they're all pacifists, and then they got taken, and she was the only one who escaped.

Remmy: Yep.

Bea: And now we're finally breaking the news to Sam, Bobby, and Mary that it's not that Michael was killing vampires, it's that they were dying. So, a subtle difference: that his experimentations were causing death.

Remmy: Yes, yes.

Bea: So, Bobby goes to kill her and like — I don't know, again, it just felt like there was so much quick action that was happening here. And like you're saying, assumptions. That, ‘okay, yep, you're a vampire now we’re gonna cut your head off goodbye,’ and she — Again, she’s spilled everything up to this point and then they’re like, ‘okay we're going to kill you,’ and she’s, “No no no, wait! I have one more sentence, and it's gonna save my life.”

Remmy: [laughs] Right, right. She's like, “I don't know anything!” ...But I do know where [Michael] was, and I don't know why I didn't say that 10 seconds ago, but here you go!

Bea: “Don't kill me, byeee.”

Remmy: “Don't kill me, byeee.” And [next] we see pretty Michael, and pretty woman enter that hotel room from before.

Bea: Yes, and he has… is it a bottle of wine, or champagne? Or do I just not know the difference?

Remmy: Um. [mocking] It was definitely wine, okay Bea, like —

Bea: It didn't have the fizzies, so —

Remmy: No bubbly!

Bea: — I wrote down wine!

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Michael doesn't even know what city he's in, and that made me think back to Bobby at the beginning. Where he's like, Duluth in October?? What's [Michael] doing?

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Like, it's genuinely — Again, it's so minor in comparison to the scale of power that Michael’s operating off of. He doesn't even know where he is. He doesn't care, he just has work to do.

Remmy: Mhmm.

Bea: And there’s this playful back-and-forth between him and the woman, Melanie. And she goes to make a move, but he essentially goes, “Oh, you think you picked _me?_ No, I picked _you._ ”

Remmy: [splutters] Goes to make a move?! She tries to kill him!

Bea: ...Yeah, but she —

Remmy: What kind of sex are you having, Bea?!

Bea: Oh, please don't ask me that kind of question. It's a very sad result.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: No! She touches his shoulders, she goes to touch his back, so they're doing this little dance back and forth with each other, and then he just straight-up lifts her and throws her, and tells her to summon her Master.

Remmy: And, y’know, I thought that was a pretty weird word choice. Um, I momentarily did forget, I didn't actually know if… The word choice of Master had me wracking my brains like, do we know the Alpha? Who's the werewolf Alpha? Did we kill the Alpha? Like, what does that mean, ‘Master.’

Bea: Yeah. I went to Alpha first thing, too.

Remmy: Yeah, ‘cause we’ve like — It's been on the peripheral that we've talked about packs before, but to say… I don't think that we’ve established werewolf packs in the same way that we’ve vampire nests. And I just think that the word choice of ‘Master’ had a lot more weight than I was comfortable with for current canon.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: But I digress.

Bea: Yeah, that's fair. So, next, we go to Nick on the phone with a Detective. He’s called Pike Creek, Delaware, and he is trying to get further information about what had happened with his family's case, and he — We get Cas observing this, and then he and Nick get off on the wrong foot. Seemingly because of Cas’s word choices when he’s talking about what's going on.

Remmy: And we see a bit of that same Nick aggression. Or, not aggression, but more just like —

Bea: Overdramatic B**** Disease.

Remmy: [laughs] Yes! He really does seem to be picking a fight. Just like in the very first scene with Cas and Nick; where Cas was just bringing him a sandwich, but Nick says, “You know I'm not him, you _can_ look at me. Do I remind you of him?”

Bea: He has these very childish reactions to things. Where he’s only seeing things from his perspective, and if other people are unable to meet him on his ground then it’s their failing. And not only that, but they’re antagonistic for it.

Remmy: And this scene, right here, is where I am slain by the Jimmy feels. Because —

Bea: Holy s***, yeah.

Remmy: Nick says, “This… James Novak, is he okay with that? With what you've done to him?” And we get a very genuine, and… I do appreciate here, that Castiel is not matching Nick for his aggression.

Bea: Yeah. He says with confidence, “Yes, [Jimmy] was.” But then Nick pulls on that ‘was’ and keeps on digging.

Remmy: Mhmm. And hits right where it hurts. Not just for the viewer, but for Cas himself. Nick ultimately says, “You're no better. You're nothing but a body snatcher; you’re no better than Lucifer.” And, you just _see_ in Cas’s eyes that it's an old hurt, and it still hurts.

Bea: Yeah. I wondered if it was this mixture of anger, of guilt. Like, what was he experiencing, full in that moment? Because he restrained himself from responding to Nick's call against him, saying ‘you're no better than Lucifer.’ I wonder how much Cas has thought of that in the past. Like, how much he's feared it. Because, I mean, to just take a step [back] and look at his overarching path… From being an angel subservient to Heaven, to disobeying, to falling, essentially. Like, he's done these things that Lucifer did, and we had an episode even, in Season 5, where Lucifer is like, “You're like me.” And so I wondered how much of that call went to those elements that he might fear. And also to, y’know. Cas has said yes to Lucifer as well, and look at the things that came from that.

Remmy: Well, right, and it was… Well, that's how we started this conversation, right? Where Nick actually brings it up first, he says, “Why, because your body was taken from you?” when Cas says “I can relate.”

Bea: Yeah. “Your body was stolen,” was Nick’s phrasing.

Remmy: Right, and he's talking about when Lucifer possessed Cas. And Nick is obviously aware of that. But, like you said, Castiel says with confidence, “No, it's how I feel about my situation in that this is a vessel.” [Cas’s] body, and maybe even how [he’s] been seeing [himself] and, kind of identifying [himself] in the past few years because, y’know… I could go on and on about true form vs. physical form, but maybe, like I said, his identity is being shaped by this physical form that he’s taken on. And held for the past many years, for the past decade! And… and it's not… it's Jimmy feels! Jimmy feels abound!!

Bea: Yeah, it's not just a vessel to him, it’s a life that he has become entwined with. And, yeah, he makes a point, even though he’s left [the room] to keep himself from saying something perhaps in anger, or in retaliation to Nick's accusations, he still stops turns around and says, “In all my thousands of years, what happened to Jimmy Novak and his family is my greatest regret.”

Remmy: [pained noises]

Bea: And _then_ he leaves.

Remmy: And he — It — Ah! Okay, oof, Reset, reset Remmy.

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: Okay. So. [distressed laugher]

Bea: Yeah, any time that Jimmy comes up… It's just a hard reminder, like you hear Cas saying. And it's also nice to have callbacks to the history that these characters have gone through and acknowledge that, y’know, they weren't just in passing. They have consequences that the characters carry with them.

Remmy: It's so nice to have those callbacks, and it is such a huge insight on our characters. Yes. Yes, and yes. And for Cas to say, “This is my biggest regret.” If we can take that as true, then what does that — What does it mean?! It's such a personal thing. Especially when weighed against the scale of _all_ the things: the angels falling; the betrayal of the souls of Purgatory and Godstiel; the Civil War in Heaven and, literally everything! Losing his Heaven home by rebelling — Uh, not that he would regret rebelling. I mean, come on, let's be real, but —

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: But, everything! Saying yes to —

Bea: It's such a human thing.

Remmy: Such a human thing! And saying yes to Lucifer. I could go on and on and o,n because we have 15 years to work with, and I love it. Love it, love it.

Bea: Yeah, I —

Remmy: Okay, I'm done. [laughs]

Bea: I just really enjoyed that we got to see that, y’know, these innocent bystanders, basically, that… Maybe when Cas was looking for a vessel, he just picked this one, and yet as time has passed he sees the consequences of those decisions, and the ramifications to these people that he’s gotten to know, and that he’s gotten to love, and deeply care about, and know that his actions have caused pain, as well.

Remmy: Exactly. To see our characters carry the weight of these individuals that they save or fail with them. And we've had many callbacks before that do illustrate that. It's so good. It always, always hits where it hurts.

Bea: Yes, it's really great to see that. Especially so early in a season. Like, it sets up good expectations for things that will come later on. So. We cut over next to Michael bringing cognac out to the leader of this pack that Melanie belongs to, and doing a quick taste test to confirm that there's no silver in it. And the pack leader — I was like, is it Philippe or Philip?

Remmy: Philippe.

Bea: I didn't know how fancy he was. Yeah, Philippe is wondering what Michael would have to do with them. And we get insight into the vision that Michael has, and how it aligns with what this werewolf leader can see. A world where the humans are enslaved, or there's just enough of them to go around, but otherwise the humans are no longer ‘top dog’. Michael’s so pleased with that pun, too!

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: He's just so full of himself. I kind of love it.

Remmy: Uh huh. Yes, I was going to say: if you want to talk about Michael, this is the scene to talk about Michael.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: This was such a great scene. Coming off of Nick and Cas at the bunker, and then going into this… this is such a great scene! And we have — Michael lays out… or I think Philippe is the one who kind of flippantly says, “Oh, so we take over the world and keep only enough humans around as slave labor and food? Oh, what a wonderful world, if only.” And Michael says, “Well, why couldn't it be like that?”

Bea: “Who says?”

Remmy: Yeah, “Who says?” and Michael informs Philippe that, “Between you and me, the Big Guy upstairs has gone fishing.”

Bea: Yep. “Permanent vacation.”

Remmy: Mhmm.

Bea: And I like that Michael made a point of saying, like, demons and angels aren't a factor in this world anymore, so Michael's the one who's in charge.

Remmy: Yeah. “Demons and angels don't seem to be much of a factor, here, so it's just me.” And [Michael] is top dog.

Bea: Yeah, and I have decided that your wants are pure. You're true to the vision of your life, and so… Therefore, I deem you worthy of being the successor for this world.

Remmy: Yeah, yeah. And I just — Again, kind of questioning Michael’s motives a little bit: what does he _want?_ This is the question that runs through not only the past two episodes, but later too. What does he want from all this? Is he just kicking up the sand in this sandbox, or —

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: Or does he want something from it? Does he want that pet superior race?

Bea: Yeah. Is his vision just to do this sort of long game chaos where, okay, now the monsters are top dog, but it's not going to last forever. They're going to devolve into chaos, and ultimately it's destroyed. Or is there a different vision he has? Because it's hard to imagine him having any sort of benign outcome here, for ‘the monsters’, quote-unquote.

Remmy: It's interesting. It's just interesting. I don't know what to think about it yet.

Bea: Yeah. It's one of those things where it has to walk this line of being obscure enough that it incites intrigue, but not too obscure that you're frustrated. And so far I just completely sit on intrigue.

[pause]

Bea: So, we follow up this scene with Jack going to see the Klines. And we find out that he was named after [his mother’s] father, Kelly's father.

Remmy: My hand to my heart!

Bea: Oof. This whole scene was so sweet, and so endearing, and I was really glad to see it.

Remmy: Me too, me too. It was really good, it really was. I enjoyed the whole [scene]. We see Jack being, just, _Jack_ , and adorable, and like you said, endearing. And trying so hard to hold himself in, because this is very emotional for him, but he doesn't want to… He really just doesn't want to scare away these people.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: These people that he wants to connect with.

Bea: Yeah. He wants this connection but he can't reveal too much, and so he has to walk this line of implying things a degree removed from him. So rather than Kelly as the one talking to him, Kelly was talking to her baby boy.

Remmy: The grandparents were so good.

Bea: Perfectly cast, A+.

Remmy: Yes, yes. Though I did, you know, have a little giggle over the fact that Grandma Kline was like, “You know what, you kind of look like [Kelly]!” [laughs] That’s not a normal thing to say to a normal person! Sorry!

Bea: Yeah, she's like, “It's a little nutty! Whoops, but I'm gonna say it.”

Remmy: Uh huh. I was like, that's not normal conversation.

Bea: And, okay. Jack saying, “She's an amazing mother.” Kelly took the time to sing and talk to him before he was even born, made him feel safe and wanted, and Kelly asserted that Jack sets his own fate.

Remmy: I know, and I mean, we’ve seen before Jack kind of drawing guidance and strength from the memory of his mother, but it never gets old.

Bea: Yeah, I do really enjoy that the writers keep her present, even if she's not there in living form. That her weight doesn't disappear. Jack still carries [her] with [him]. And credit to Alex for carrying the character of Jack with this, because you can feel such a warmth whenever he's talking about Kelly.

Remmy: And this whole scene was so warm.

Bea: Yeah. And he almost gets choked up, saying he hopes someday to have her courage and purpose.

Remmy: I mean, the point of this whole field trip was to gain perspective, and guidance, and direction. And I think that… I think that he found it, a little bit.

Bea: Yeah. There's this bittersweet parting between them, but it really affirmed to [Jack] the strength of the connection that he had with his mother, and that it gave him sort of this boost to his morale.

Remmy: I mean, _I_ got emotional on that parting. Y’know, when Jack was saying goodbye to his grandparents. Because, oh man, Grandpa Jack new what's up. He knows what's up, man. It was hard to watch, because you could just see in Kelly's father that he was actually fighting back that emotional response to the realization that Jack was talking about Kelly in the past tense.

Bea: Yes. Yeah, there was this undertone that started to build the longer the conversation went, and… ‘Cause I was, I re-watched the scene a couple of times trying to pinpoint when the mood turns bittersweet, but it really is just building to this crescendo. When Jack is talking about [Kelly], and we get the sense that the grandparents know that there's more to the story that's not being told, but they don't have… maybe the courage, or the strength to question it just now.

Remmy: It was a really great scene.

Bea: It was so good.

Remmy: Ah, so good.

Bea: So, after this we go back to the vampire girl, Lydia. She's packing rapidly when Michael shows up at her kitchen table. And he’s showing this gleeful side, almost, that he's pointing out the game of letting her escape.

Remmy: He is monologuing! He’s supervillain monologuing!

Bea: He's so pleased with himself.

Remmy: It's so funny, he's like — He's the supervillain trope, just total cliche. It's fun. It's fun and funny.

Bea: And at the same time, you're like, ‘what a dick.’

Remmy: [laughs] What a dick!

Bea: Can't have a trap without bait.

Remmy: Yeah, he — So, he reveals a lot without revealing much, here.

Bea: Yeah. It's giving us anticipation for there to be the switch-a-roo thing going on. Probably pretty soon, knowing that Sam, Bobby, and Mary now know where to look for him.

Remmy: Right. He says that this is a trap, and so now going into — When we later see Sam, Mary, and Bobby in the church it's like, we’re waiting for that trap to spring.

Bea: Yes. And [Michael] kills [Lydia] without even looking at her. Like, he just does his glowy eyes and then she electro-boops out.

Remmy: Mhmm. Electro boob is the new way to say it, there's no—

Bea: Electro booooob!

Remmy: [laughs] There’s no such thing as an electro-boop.

Bea: Boop! I will cause a horrible breeze on this mic.

Remmy: Boop! But, before the church, we have Cas and Jack at the bunker. Back at the bunker.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: And instantly, we dive into, again, that worried father. This parental cas. Who's —

Bea: Yes!

Remmy: Who's berating his kid for going out to the club, when he was explicitly told not to, mister!

Bea: Yeah. Just scolding him, and Jack is just full-out [mocking] “You’re not my dad! It was fine! I'm not defenseless!”

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: And Cas is correcting him, like, “No! the possibility of capture is real!”

Remmy: Uh huh.

Bea: I'm not making s*** up, you’re on the radars of a lot of people right now.

Remmy: It was — I really liked the directing in this scene. The cut in to them storming the halls. Again, total dad-teenager dynamic.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: But it gets pretty serious pretty quick, and poor Cas just keeps — Cas gets his licks this episode, doesn’t he!

Bea: Yeah, he really took a hit. And this one here because Jack makes a point of saying that he wanted to meet his “real” family, and you could see how sharply that seems to hit Cas. Like, he has to physically restrain himself from saying something in retaliation. And so he takes a moment to calm, and then takes the kernel of what Jack was saying; which is essentially that he wanted to know more about his mom, and his mom's family.

Remmy: And again, Cas does not react — He doesn’t respond… He doesn't meet anger with anger.

Bea: Well, like, “Okay, you've made your decision. And now I'm just going to make sure that you were safe during it.” He asks that Jack didn't let slip his identity, and Jack was like, [mocking] “No, I know better.”

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: [Jack]'s not nearly that childish, but at the same time you can see this selfish aspect, that’s kind of being mirrored between himself and with Nick. Where they’re both characters that are really looking at their situation and their struggles and, like, “Well of course I wouldn't screw up, don't you know me better?”

Remmy: Uh huh.

Bea: And Cas is allowing Jack to steer the conversation towards more information about what was going on with Kelly's family. And Jack is pleased that they saw a resemblance, and [says] that he couldn't tell them that she died. Because they loved her so much. And Cas is pleased, saying, “You did it from a place of kindness, and there's worse ways to be human than to be kind.”

Remmy: Yeah, exactly. He's trying to come at it with a show of understanding, no matter how he felt about the decision in itself.

Bea: No changing the past, but he can at least make sure that he and Jack are still okay.

Remmy: Mhmm.

Bea: So, then Jack asks about Michael. And when they find him, basically, will they kill him? And Cas says no, the plan is to just get [him] out of [Dean].

Remmy: Instantly, I am in Cas’s shoes. I’m put on my back foot when Jack says that.

Bea: Like, “What if that doesn't work?”

Remmy: Uh huh, uh huh. So we're gonna — “Good, they're closing in on Michael. They can finally kill him, right?” and —

Bea: Cas just has this face, like, ‘uhhh, what?’

Remmy: ‘Uh, huh??’ [laughs]

Bea: Like, that's not the first instinct that we’re following, here. We want to get [Michael] out of Dean, and if that doesn't work then we're going to find a way to drive him out. And Jack just keeps pushing for, “Well, what if that doesn't work? Dean doesn't matter. If it comes down to him or Michael, Michael has to be stopped.”

Remmy: [pained groan]

Bea: And I wondered how much of this resolve that he was having in this moment came from that shoring up he had after speaking to his family. Kelly's family. Because he says, “I wish that I could someday have her courage her purpose.” and I thought that there was this really interesting juxtaposition between what he's saying now about Dean and what he was saying about the grandparents. Like, he couldn't tell them [Kelly] died, because they loved her so much, and yet here he is amongst people who love Dean so much and being like, “Well, I'm going to give _you_ a cold hard truth.”

Remmy: That is a _good_ point. He’s shored himself up to this resolve. My question was: how much of this stems from Michael, as a… how much of this stems from what Jack knows of Michael, as a villain from the apocalypse world? [Jack]’s time in the apocalypse world.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: And how much of it stems from, just, Jack not having that relationship with Dean. Where he [doesn’t] feel as strongly about it as everyone else in the room. Or, [others] in this situation.

Bea: Yeah. Yes, I totally agree that there’s this balance between those two elements. Like, the threat of Michael versus the love for Dean. And of all of them, Jack is the one who has spent the most time over in Michael's territory. He’s been on that turf, and been doing the counter-fight, and so he knows how difficult that’s been and he knows the scale of damage that was wrought by [Michael]. And to know that this world is threatened, someone has to be able to step up and say “No, that's not going to happen. I’ve drawn a hard line, here, and Michael cannot cross it.”

Remmy: And… and I'm not even saying that it's the wrong resolve, right? It’s —

Bea: It's just really hard. It's such a cold thought.

Remmy: Is it, though? I mean, I think that it kind of comes back to ‘Anything for the Winchesters.’ The family is notoriously bad about f****** over the world. Or, they have a history of f****** over the world to save one man. So this might be calling that out, a little bit.

Bea: Giving it a different light, yeah. We're seeing it from someone that maybe isn't Inner Circle yet, but is still having a look at it.

Remmy: Well, what if it _is_ someone in the Inner Circle? What if I could equate this to Mary turning around and saying, well, maybe we should consider that Dean wouldn't want us to save him at the cost of sparing Michael. And Jack really does bring it right back to that, which is: “Would Dean want it any different?”

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: And you just see Cas physically flinch away from that, because he knows.

Bea: Jack does a lot of things the way that Dean would do, whether it’s instinctively or not.

Remmy: There’s a lot of Dean in Jack and that has been… it's been that way from the beginning. Jack never would emulate Sam, or Cas, or call on their… is influence the right word?

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: [Jack doesn’t call on their influence] like he does with Dean. It's almost like, the same way that he looks to Kelly as his mother, you see him looking to Dean. More so than anybody else.

Bea: Well, I don't even know if you would say he's looking at Dean, but that his instincts align with Dean's instincts, and that there is a kinship there, that… it doesn't necessarily have to be trained or learned, it's just he seems to have that connection, and that imitation that he wants to pursue.

Remmy: Or that they're just fundamentally more alike than any of the other — Than anyone else in the family.

Bea: Yeah, I think — Yeah, I was trying to get along that, but you said it much better.

Remmy: [laughs] Yeah, no, we do see that. We do. And I think that's where the… I think that's why this scene here with Jack and Cas is so compelling, because Jack is completely making sense and that's why it kind of… I mean, again, I feel the same way Cas is feeling in this moment, like, ‘oh, f***.’

Bea: Yeah, and you can just envision, if Cas… ‘Cause Cas basically had this conversation with Dean at the end of Season 13. “No, you can't do that,” and Dean being like, “I don't have any other choice.” And here Jack is going, what do you do if you know all of these other options that you want to work through, if they don't work? What do you do if you don't have any other choice? Are you gonna be able to do it, because Dean would want you to do it. And now Cas is like, [petulant] “I don't wanna play any more!”

Remmy: [laughs] Yes, exactly! Exactly. And then we move on to creepy Nick and creepy creepy neighbor Artie.

Bea: Nick visiting good ol’ Artie.

Remmy: Are they drinking tea out of, like, a proper tea set?

Bea: Yeah, yeah.

Remmy: Creeper! Creepy creeper!

Bea: You have a lot of judgement coming on for this tea set here, Remmy!

Remmy: [laughs] I made a lot of assumptions about this Artie character. The round glasses and the tea set. Oof. no.

Bea: Oh man, later in this scene, those glasses I have thoughts on.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Not thoughts, but — Did you notice when Nick was holding [Artie] up against the wall, that the glasses’ leg wasn't hooked over his ear?

Remmy: I did.

Bea: I was just watching that and like, ‘oh my God…’

Remmy: Just distracted, waiting for the glasses to fall off.

Bea: Yeah, that cover shot was just, that's where that caught my eye.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: But, yeah, so: Artie is sitting there, and he's being very sympathetic. But Nick is upset, and he wants to be upset, and then he's upset that Artie’s not upset, and there's just this whole vicious cycle that's going on.

Remmy: Yeah, and it becomes very obvious very fast that Nick came in wanting a very particular… A very specific response to his questions.

Bea: Yes.

Remmy: And it was just an upward spiral of anger and tension when Artie was not responding in the way that [Nick] wanted him to. It was approaching Lucifer-esque.

Bea: Well, would you say Artie wasn't responding the way that [Nick] wanted, or… ‘Cause, the way I took it was that Nick was forcing him to be caught in a corner of his lies. Y’know, we heard earlier in the episode that there was this witness, but then their story changed. And now here Nick is with Artie and [Nick]'s like, “yeah, so…” He just keeps pushing on the fact that Artie changed his story, and how much effect that has had on Nick's emotional state. And, basically making Artie to blame for misremembering. Like, Artie trying to say, “I couldn't remember. I couldn't remember, I just remembered wrong,” and Nick is just, “Mhmm, mhmm, mhmm. Okay, _anyways._ ” [Artie] Deserves to be punished for this.

Remmy: Exactly! [Nick] went in with a conviction that Artie did see something and is lying about it. And I just think that it's basically a happy accident that [Nick] was right.

Bea: Yeah, and you talk about getting aggressive, well. Artie hasn't seen him for 10 years. 10+ years, and now Nick is back and [Artie]’s like, “Oh! I haven't seen you in so long, how have you been doing?” But Nick is reacting with very visceral, fresh anger that I don't think would really make sense to Artie as this outside viewer

Remmy: Yesss. Oh my God, yes! This is _very_ fresh.

Bea: ‘Cause [Artie]'s sitting there, and he's trying to be sympathetic, like, “Oh, it was so hard for what went on,” and Nick is like, no, I'm still going through this processing. There's this disconnect between expectations.

Remmy: Yes! We _are_ invited to forget that it has been a decade since this happened. Like, Nick goes on and on about cold cases and whatnot but, yes, he is reacting as if this is a very fresh wound, because it _is_ a fresh wound. But to the rest of the world, it's been… it's a cold case.

Bea: Yeah, we’re sitting here with Nick's perspective, and Nick just found out about this. And we forget that it's been so long since it actually took place.

Remmy: Ah! I love talking with you, you're so good.

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: You're the best.

Bea: Did you — Did you notice at the start at this scene, that the camera was looking at the project in the background, and the hammer was sitting right there?

Remmy: No! I did not!

Bea: Yep.

Remmy: I did not see a hammer in the house!

Bea: Yep! So, that's our Chekhov’s Hammer sitting right there, and I was like, ‘Oh no... This ain't gonna go good.’

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: And the lighting is so warm and cozy, and it's just such a juxtaposition to what we see in… another scene from now.

Remmy: Oh, ‘another scene from now?’ Ooo, ominous.

Bea: Yeah, yeah, yeah. ‘Cause we go from Artie being pinned up against the wall by Nick, back to the derelict church that we saw at the beginning of the episode. And Bobby is asking Sam and Mary if they think Lydia was lying about this place, but Mary points out the fresh blood on the floor and, like, nah, this is where Michael was. Now what?

Remmy: Yeah. It's almost like, why would anyone be here? There's nothing here. But then… they're ambushed.

Bea: Yeah! Surprise wolf attack through the window.

Remmy: [laughs] They were some nice — That was some nice stained glass, too!

Bea: It was! I dunno, my aesthetic vibe must be really off. Because I'm like, that was a really nice place!

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Not that I would, like, sit there and hang out, but it’d be cool to visit. As just… ruins, one day.

Remmy: Uh huh, uh huh.

Bea: And I'm showing my priorities again while I'm watching this, because I'm like, oh, Mary has a French tuck on her shirt! Has she been watching Queer Eye and picked that one fashion thing up?

Remmy: Bea, oh my God, you're such a f****** nerd.

Bea: I'm so sorry. But, this is — ! Again, I just sit here and that's where my mind went first, like, oh, look, a nice French tuck!

Remmy: But, y’know —

Bea: And then, gun fight.

Remmy: [laughs] And then, gun fight. But, you know, if we want to talk about aesthetics, I do think that it's interesting… and it might just be a directing choice, but it might also be a Michael choice, that we put Michael in this broken-down church.

Bea: Mhmm, mhmm.

Remmy: That, aesthetically, is very similar to the things that we had been seeing in the apocalypse world.

Bea: Mhmmmm! I'm sitting here, I'm nodding like Jack Nicholson, like, mhmmmm, yesss.

Remmy: It is! It really is. It's like we've been thrown straight back to the apocalypse world. Uh, aesthetically.

Bea: He loves going to churches.

Remmy: He does!

Bea: He loves to go to places of worship, where humans go to connect with the Divine, and he loves just f****** s*** up in them.

Remmy: It's a fun — Like, we might just be trying to associate this kind of apocalypse —

Bea: Yeah, here's my high school essay, but —

Remmy: — apocalypse feel to Michael as a character, but maybe Michael just… This is the kind of thing that he likes in his habitat.

Bea: I do think that there's something to that. Because going to broken down places of worship, for a character such as Michael, there's meaning behind that.

Remmy: I love it I love it I love it I love it.

Bea: A+!

Remmy: And then, gun fight.

Bea: Yes, gun fight! They have silver bullets, but they aren't working. So they get out machetes to capidetate —

Remmy: [laughs] Cap-i-de-tate.

Bea: — some of these werewolves. And Mary hatchets one to death! Did you see that?! She f****** axed him! And then does a Jason Momoa toss into the one —

Remmy: [cackles]

Bea: — that's fighting Bobby, and then Bobby grabs it and f****** hatchets the next one to death! I was like, ho-ly, there's a lot of brutality going on right now.

Remmy: Uh huh. Yes, yes. And we’re — [gasps] Ohhh my God! I totally forgot to make fun of the new werewolf prosthetic teeth!

Bea: Oh! Like Melanie's prosthetics?

Remmy: Uh huh! And the other werewolves —

Bea: That seemed over-the-top, yeah.

Remmy: The other werewolves also had the same teeth, and I was just like, “Really guys? Really?? Really, this is what we're gonna do? It's 2018, and this is what we're gonna do? Hmmm.”

Bea: I'm like, their dentistry would be so difficult… I don't know, I just sit there, I’m like, those poor souls! How are you even eating things!

Remmy: [laughs] It didn't — The thing [is]: Sometimes… things that are… less expensive… are better…

Bea: [laughs] Oh, Freckle. So much insight.

Remmy: Oh my God, I just — We made it worse. We took the old and we made it worse, and I just don't know why. And then! And then, later on, we did the same thing with the vampires. Like, okay… cool…

Bea: They're juiced up.

Remmy: Whatever…

Bea: We gotta make ‘em look juiced up.

Remmy: But — But no! No, I reject that theory!

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: Because, as you said, Melanie had the exact same teeth that these quote-unquote ‘juiced up’ werewolves did, so.

Bea: Okay, that was a question that I had, too. Just… was Michael crossing streams, here? Was he trying to take the weaknesses of one [monster] versus the weaknesses of another? ‘Cause my reading of this was not that he was amplifying the natural abilities, it was that he was reducing the…

Remmy: The weaknesses.

Bea: I guess he was crossing streams.

Remmy: Well, no… We don't really explore it much, but I did like Bobby's little, “Well, that works,” on the decapitation.

Bea: Mhmm. [laughs]

Remmy: ‘Cause, yeah, I mean, you can't reduce — ‘Ya can’t get an immunity to decapitation and burning.

Bea: You'd hope not! That's when you know you're in the endgame.

Remmy: But we might be able to assume that a vampire who gets this upgrade might be resistant to dead man's blood. Stuff like that, you know. Maybe they're faster, maybe they're stronger. They’re Jefferson Starship's 2.0

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: ...We'll pretend that you've seen that season.

Bea: I have seen that season!

Remmy: Oh ho ho!! Big shot Bea!

Bea: That was Eve! That was Season 6!

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Yeah, all of a sudden I know s***!

Remmy: Big shot Bea, knows what a Jefferson Starship is! Okay.

Bea: [sing-song] Don't sass me, I do know things!

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Yeah, they check — Okay, nobody's bitten, okay, cool: what the f***? And [they] go over the fact that silver is this immunity that's all of the sudden cropped up in werewolves, but they don't have much time to discuss before the doors to this church room burst open. And there’s Michael, with [his] head bowed. [He] walks in with an arm outstretched, and then collapses against a post, breathing hard. And he removes his cap, and even though his hair still has that crisp, _crisp_ part —

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: — it’s Dean, going: “Sammy, it's me.”

Remmy: Was that a hint of admiration I heard, for that —

Bea: I dig that hair! I don't know what it is.

Remmy: [laughs] I cannot wait until Jensen retires, because I wanna see what he does with… All’a that.

Bea: I'm so scared. Anytime hiatus hits and I see what these boys have decided they should look like, I'm like, ‘my God…’

Remmy: [EXTREME laughter]

Bea: I'm very happy that you have —

Remmy: Sorry!!

Bea: — a routine appointment with hair trimmers.

Remmy: Sorry! Sorry, I didn't want to hurt your ears there, dear dear listeners.

Bea: [laughs]

Remmy: But Bea just shot me right in the gut with that one.

Bea: I… I don't… I have nothing against face scruff because clearly, grief beard, enjoyed that. And I do enjoy hiatus beards, but it is very much like, I'm so scared we're going to see, like, Thor —

Remmy: [background giggles]

Bea: — depressive state level of haircuts comin’ out in future if there's no one to stop them.

Remmy: [through laughter] Please…

Bea: I won't cast judgment!

Remmy: Have mercy…

Bea: But I — I watch with curiosity.

Remmy: My — my stomach hurts, Bea…

Bea: [laughs] This is punishment! Every time you cast shade at me I’ll just, okay, I'll find some way to wound you with laughter!

Remmy: I… Well, I’m excited!

Bea: I didn't say that I was _not_ excited, I just have —

Remmy: You said! You literally said — !

Bea: I feel, like, a _healthy degree_ of dread.

Remmy: You literally said, “I'm so afraid!”

Bea: That doesn't mean that I can't be excited!

Remmy: Okay. Okay okay okay, all right. So. It’s _Dean_. It's Dean in the doorway.

Bea: It's Dean.

Remmy: It’s not Michael, and Sam immediately goes to Dean and says, “Is it really you?”

Bea: And they sit him down and, “Are you okay?” And [Dean says], “No I'm not okay!”

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: He is _very_ adamant. Like, that is a dumb question.

Remmy: I liked that, too.

Bea: Yeah.

Remmy: Very Dean. A good reintroduction.

Bea: Yeah, and they're trying to ask, “Okay, what's going on? How did you get him to leave?” How did you get Michael gone, and Dean says that he _didn't_ get Michael to leave, he just left. And he doesn't know why, and they do, like, Looks™ at each other.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Mary's looking at Bobby, Bobby's looking at Sam. There are Looks™ happening here.

Remmy: And the viewer is thinking about this — still thinking about this trap that Michael said he has lain.

Bea: Yes, we have some dramatic irony going on with what the viewer knows versus what the characters know, and _we_ know that there is some sort of plan, here. But good God, what could it be?

Remmy: Exactly. That's exactly what I was going to say: But, good golly gosh, my mind is spiraling. What is up?

Bea: Again, we're just kicking up questions. Like, what does Michael want? How does this fit into this? How is giving, quote-unquote “giving” Dean back to his brother, to his mother, to this side that’s fighting against him, beneficial to Michael? ‘Cause you would think losing your perfect vessel would be a bad scene.

Remmy: And, on the… I mean, this is only the second episode!

Bea: Yeah!

Remmy: To see Michael leave so soon, to see Dean back so soon... This was not expected.

Bea: There were some hints during the hiatus that Michael was… Like, we were gonna get Dean back pretty soon. But again, sitting on the second episode of the season, I was like, wow, that was a short run. It raises questions of, “when is this hanging sword above us gonna fall?”

Remmy: Yes, absolutely. And we end on… last scene.

Bea: Yes. The final scene is good ol’ Nick approaching a mirror, _covered_ in blood. And there's no lights on in the room. He sets down this hammer in front of him, and we see that Artie is super dead.

Remmy: Super — Creepy neighbor is, uh…

Bea: I refuse to call him creepy, although I do understand where it's coming from.

Remmy: Creepy neighbor!

Bea: I'm like, spineless neighbor.

Remmy: Is suuuuper dead.

Bea: He's not breathing.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: And, yeah, compared to what we had before, he — The lights are turned off, and Nick just, he seems calm. He seems clear-headed, and just sets the hammer down and peaces out.

Remmy: That is a good point. That's a good point. He is again retreating — In this act of violence, he has this calm. He has this clear-headedness that we were not seeing from him before. And also, on this moment of calm and clarity for Nick: is this Lucifer? That damage to his psyche that we were talking about earlier? Is this the return of Lucifer, or is it just Nick on a mission?

Bea: Yeah. Is this a precursor to something more, or is this something inherent to Nick himself.

Remmy: So, more questions. Questions, questions, questions.

Bea: Questions abound!

Remmy: Uh huh.

Bea: Yeah, so then we've reached the end of the episode, here. What was your big takeaway? What was the sort of thing that ‘cha liked, or what did you not, or…?

Remmy: My one big takeaway… My one big takeaway would be, really, as much as I loved Cas this whole episode, it would have to be all the insight that we got on Jack on this episode. We see more on [what] he’s feeling about his current situation. And that — that petulant teenager thing, I can just see projecting into the rest of the season.

Bea: Mhmm.

Remmy: Like, oh, this is not good. I mean, it's good, it's something exciting, but —

Bea: This is the terrible twos.

Remmy: Yeah, it's the — [laughs] It’s the terrible twos. And I do, I do and will always really really really love that Jack and Mr. and Mrs. Kline scene. Where Jack revisits his touchstone of his mother.

Bea: Yesss.

Remmy: And finds the way forward.

Bea: Yes, no kidding. That Kelly is such a strong grounding force for him, and it really gives him strength moving forward.

Remmy: Mhmm. What's your final thoughts? Again, the Shirley Temple chinhands.

Bea: [laughs] I think that I have to go with Cas. There was so much character development that happened for him this episode. We got to see him moving away from those old elements, that he has doubts of his self-worth and doubts of his value. And we see him in this episode really forming relationships, or attempting these human connections. And it takes this vulnerability to try to connect with people, and to see Cas is confident enough in these areas that he was previously weak in. To extend the hand to Jack, and to extend the hand to Nick, and be like, “I sympathize. I can connect with you.” It was such a great moment, to see that Cas has stepped forward as a character, and in confidence in himself, to become capable of doing such things.

Remmy: Cas was such a shining star this episode, and —

Bea: What a good babysitter!

Remmy: [laughs] Yes, exactly! I was so afraid, at the top end of this episode, I was so afraid that when Sam was like, [ mocking] “So, why can't you come with us?” we were just going to shuttle — It was just me rolling my eyes, ‘oh, here we go again.’ We're going to shuttle Cas off to the side. But we didn't! We didn't, he really got… _we_ got more on Cas this episode than, I would say, we've gotten in the past two seasons combined. Which is insane! It's mind-blowing and amazing.

Bea: Yeah and… as good as he was connecting with them, he actually was a terrible babysitter.

Remmy: [laughs]

Bea: Because he lost _both_ children.

Remmy: [laughs louder]

Bea: In the same — Like, he loses one, he loses the other! They're just in and out the doors, oh my gosh.

Remmy: You’re right, I — I didn't even think about that. He's not a good babysitter.

Bea: Jack comes back, [Cas] is like, “Where were you?!” and then, “Where's Nick?!” …Oh, f***.

Remmy: “Where ‘ya going??”

Bea: “You know what? I _told_ them that this is babysitting.”

Remmy: Sam is gonna walk back into the [bunker] and Cas is —

Bea: “You had one job!”

Remmy: Cas is just gonna be standing at the landing of the stairs, like, “I'm sorry…”

Bea: You had one job, Cas. C’mon.

Remmy: That's f****** hilarious. I love it.

Bea: So, yeah.

Remmy: Mhmm.

Bea: Cas: great heart, terrible babysitter.

Remmy: Great heart, terrible babysitting. Yep. Yep. And that is Season 14, Episode 2.

Bea: Gods and Monsters.

Remmy: Gods and Monsters! Yes. Join us next week, for Episode 3… I don't know the name of the episode, but next week I will know the name of the next episode. [laughs]

Bea: Yeah, next week. Join us next week as we continue down our Season 14 rewatch.

Remmy: Yes, what she said. And you can — If we miss anything this episode, or you want to talk more about this episode, or you just want to say that we did a good job —

Bea: Well, also, if you guys have thoughts for episodes down the road that you want to maybe bring up as points that we can talk about, then please feel free to send them into our email address. It’s nochickflickpodcast at gmail.com

Remmy: Or you can reach us at Tumblr or Twitter, at ‘[chickflickpod](http://www.twitter.com/nochickflickpod)’ for Twitter, and ‘[nochickflickpodcast](nochickflickpodcast.tumblr.com)’ for Tumblr. And, yes, send us an ask or mention us: spread our name around! We always appreciate asks and mentions.

Bea: We thank you guys for coming this far along with us, and we hope to see you next week!

Remmy: We’ll see you there!

Bea: Bye.

Remmy: Byeee.


End file.
